1 00:00:01,160 --> 00:00:04,200 We were only going for six months. I didn't think about this. 2 00:00:05,440 --> 00:00:08,280 We felt very strongly about what we had to do. 3 00:00:10,420 --> 00:00:13,680 Both of us were thinking today could be the day that we're freed. 4 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:16,960 Or it could be the day that we're killed. 5 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:40,040 I was working in Ross and Wine. I was assistant manager in the community 6 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:42,180 and also teaching Tai Chi. 7 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:48,620 And here's John working as a builder. 8 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:54,660 I was actually off sick for nearly a whole year with a lot of back pain. And 9 00:00:54,660 --> 00:00:59,000 started doing some volunteer work at the local daycare centre, which was for 10 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:03,340 adults with learning difficulties, so physically and mentally handicapped. 11 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:05,400 What, here? 12 00:01:06,870 --> 00:01:08,570 Can't make it worse or better. 13 00:01:08,990 --> 00:01:13,870 It was attractive to me, to John. He was also interested in the spiritual way of 14 00:01:13,870 --> 00:01:16,230 looking at life, and I was. Sorry about that. 15 00:01:18,150 --> 00:01:23,890 In September 1996, we met up with this friend of mine, Chris Hunter. 16 00:01:25,230 --> 00:01:29,070 And he was working for Quaker Peace and Service in Chechnya. 17 00:01:33,100 --> 00:01:37,000 So Chris made us aware that it was a war zone and there had been fighting there. 18 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:41,300 It was a Russian -Chechen engagement and now there was a ceasefire. 19 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:48,400 He'd managed to take a small group of children out of the area in a lull in 20 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:49,400 bombing. 21 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:56,900 And then he said, well, look, now the fighting's stopped. Now's the time to 22 00:01:56,900 --> 00:01:58,440 up a permanent centre. 23 00:01:59,210 --> 00:02:04,350 to help the children, and he turned to us, and he just said... I have to say, 24 00:02:04,370 --> 00:02:07,190 though, when I was there, I actually imagined you guys being there. 25 00:02:07,830 --> 00:02:10,690 Us? Yeah. And that really set me buzzing. 26 00:02:11,270 --> 00:02:14,730 Really? Really? And I thought, you know, I'd love to do something like this. 27 00:02:15,170 --> 00:02:20,050 It was much more of a challenge than my day -to -day work of doing somebody's 28 00:02:20,050 --> 00:02:22,290 driveway or building a small patio. 29 00:02:22,630 --> 00:02:25,810 I personally didn't think about the risk involved. 30 00:02:26,650 --> 00:02:28,930 It just felt so important just to go. 31 00:02:40,150 --> 00:02:43,050 We filled this car. The car was pretty darn full. 32 00:02:43,370 --> 00:02:46,270 And it's like, wow, OK, we're starting on this big adventure. 33 00:02:46,670 --> 00:02:48,390 It did feel very exciting. 34 00:02:51,590 --> 00:02:55,550 We were going to set up this centre for these war -traumatised children. 35 00:02:56,350 --> 00:02:57,810 We were only going for six months. 36 00:02:58,030 --> 00:02:59,110 I mean, that was the deal. 37 00:03:05,910 --> 00:03:12,150 As we got closer to Grozny, it really began to hit us that we were in a war 38 00:03:12,150 --> 00:03:13,150 zone. 39 00:03:14,610 --> 00:03:16,390 I thought, this is a vision of hell. 40 00:03:31,050 --> 00:03:32,490 How could people live here still? 41 00:03:32,730 --> 00:03:36,410 What do they do for food? What do they do for water? How do they live here? 42 00:04:05,260 --> 00:04:10,480 We arrived at the place we were going to be living at. There was two armed 43 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:15,200 guards that had been kidnapped in the past, hence that we needed these 44 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:17,959 guards with us all the time. 45 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:37,880 So the morning arrived when the kids were going to come to the centre and I 46 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:39,480 very nervous actually, very nervous. 47 00:04:40,660 --> 00:04:46,540 And I've piled all these children bearing in levels of trauma. Some of the 48 00:04:46,540 --> 00:04:49,000 had lost some of their family or all of their family. 49 00:04:51,580 --> 00:04:55,680 They survived but they're damaged inside because of what they've seen, what 50 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:56,680 they've experienced. 51 00:04:57,760 --> 00:05:01,660 The idea was to find ways of helping them release their fear. 52 00:05:03,210 --> 00:05:06,050 you know, actually bring some joy back into their lives. 53 00:05:10,170 --> 00:05:16,850 I was actually the only guy, right? I had to play the fool a lot 54 00:05:16,850 --> 00:05:19,990 to be, you know, just really silly, like the clown. 55 00:05:20,210 --> 00:05:22,270 But at least it sort of got some of them laughing. 56 00:05:22,750 --> 00:05:28,330 Even by the end of that day, you could see they were more excited and alive. 57 00:05:28,330 --> 00:05:31,670 as it progressed, it was wonderful to see how they changed. 58 00:05:34,340 --> 00:05:36,240 There's a young boy called Ruslan. 59 00:05:36,500 --> 00:05:41,020 He'd lost his father in the war, and he sort of latched on to me. 60 00:06:15,860 --> 00:06:20,020 I just looked round at John and I thought, yeah, it's like, this is 61 00:06:20,020 --> 00:06:21,960 that he'd dreamt of doing and now it's happening. 62 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:32,900 And it had been a pretty full -on week. You know, we were pretty whacked that we 63 00:06:32,900 --> 00:06:34,580 took ourselves off the bed pretty early. 64 00:06:34,990 --> 00:06:36,350 Sort of about 10 o 'clock -ish. 65 00:06:43,830 --> 00:06:48,950 And I woke up sometime in the night and I thought I heard something. 66 00:06:54,030 --> 00:06:55,030 What? 67 00:06:56,070 --> 00:06:59,270 Hear that? We heard these angry voices. 68 00:06:59,550 --> 00:07:00,550 It's not like someone argued. 69 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:10,280 And at first we were listening, we were wondering, is that just our guards 70 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:11,920 having a bit of an argument? 71 00:07:12,620 --> 00:07:14,140 But then we could hear other voices. 72 00:07:17,380 --> 00:07:21,620 And that's when we were on full alert, just waiting to see what was going to 73 00:07:21,620 --> 00:07:22,620 happen. 74 00:07:42,670 --> 00:07:45,830 A bedroom door was kicked in and then came this flaming piece of paper. 75 00:07:48,050 --> 00:07:54,090 It was followed by this masked man carrying a Kalashnikov and he was 76 00:07:55,430 --> 00:07:56,030 Okay, 77 00:07:56,030 --> 00:08:03,090 I'm 78 00:08:03,090 --> 00:08:04,430 just going to stamp back. 79 00:08:04,930 --> 00:08:05,930 Stay calm. 80 00:08:12,430 --> 00:08:14,730 We heard someone in the next room getting very excited. 81 00:08:16,030 --> 00:08:17,430 And he shouted something. 82 00:08:20,390 --> 00:08:23,170 And the man said to John, where's the key? 83 00:08:23,450 --> 00:08:24,950 And they were talking about a safe. 84 00:08:28,050 --> 00:08:34,630 I thought, OK, they've come to clean us out. They've come to sort of 85 00:08:34,630 --> 00:08:35,730 take our money. 86 00:08:38,510 --> 00:08:40,730 But I'm just going to do whatever he asks. 87 00:08:40,950 --> 00:08:41,950 It's over. 88 00:08:42,250 --> 00:08:43,250 I don't get shot. 89 00:08:46,870 --> 00:08:47,990 We are English. 90 00:08:49,490 --> 00:08:50,490 Do you understand? 91 00:08:53,590 --> 00:08:57,770 Under the direction of the muzzle of a gun, I go through to open the safe. 92 00:08:58,990 --> 00:09:04,050 I can see in the kitchen area there are a couple of more armed masked men. And I 93 00:09:04,050 --> 00:09:07,310 think, well, there's no chance of doing a runner. 94 00:09:07,650 --> 00:09:08,650 I could live. 95 00:09:12,110 --> 00:09:15,630 over to the safe and i thought well you're not going to like this guys 96 00:09:15,630 --> 00:09:22,530 and i turned the 97 00:09:22,530 --> 00:09:22,810 keys 98 00:09:22,810 --> 00:09:29,890 out 99 00:09:29,890 --> 00:09:34,950 cascaded a load of colored balls that we just brought back from moscow there's 100 00:09:34,950 --> 00:09:35,950 no money in there 101 00:09:45,610 --> 00:09:48,830 I wanted to know what had happened to our two armed guards. 102 00:09:49,690 --> 00:09:54,150 So I actually looked back and there the others were tied up. 103 00:09:56,750 --> 00:10:00,710 I was intensely scared at that moment. I remember that my heart was really 104 00:10:00,710 --> 00:10:04,230 going... I was breathing like this. 105 00:10:19,530 --> 00:10:20,830 I can hear Camilla breathing. 106 00:10:21,130 --> 00:10:23,190 I can hear her breath rushing. 107 00:10:26,150 --> 00:10:33,070 I try to memorise tunes as the car goes up our street and then I get 108 00:10:33,070 --> 00:10:34,270 totally disorientated. 109 00:10:41,310 --> 00:10:43,870 This man pulled me out of the car. 110 00:10:44,150 --> 00:10:46,670 I remember his muscly kind of forearms. 111 00:10:50,089 --> 00:10:51,530 And then he just let me go. 112 00:10:52,430 --> 00:10:59,410 And I just kept walking, and suddenly... I 113 00:10:59,410 --> 00:11:11,050 hear 114 00:11:11,050 --> 00:11:14,130 all these gun cock, and so I freeze. 115 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:21,420 And then there's this silence. 116 00:11:28,380 --> 00:11:29,160 And 117 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:36,920 then 118 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:43,820 I realized that 119 00:11:43,820 --> 00:11:45,360 Camilla's obviously fallen down. 120 00:11:46,220 --> 00:11:47,940 And they're just like, bastards. 121 00:12:05,230 --> 00:12:06,230 For shit. 122 00:12:08,370 --> 00:12:09,370 Understand? 123 00:12:11,210 --> 00:12:12,210 For shit. 124 00:12:12,470 --> 00:12:13,470 Understand. 125 00:12:23,410 --> 00:12:26,770 Hello, we're not... Well, I think that's it. I think we've been kidnapped. 126 00:12:27,550 --> 00:12:28,830 What? You're right. 127 00:12:29,110 --> 00:12:30,650 Oh, my legs are really thin. 128 00:12:32,700 --> 00:12:34,700 By whom, at that time, we didn't know who. 129 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:37,460 And for how long, we didn't know. 130 00:12:37,740 --> 00:12:38,740 I have to talk to you. 131 00:12:39,460 --> 00:12:43,900 That's when my mind started going, oh, my gosh, how long is it going to be 132 00:12:43,900 --> 00:12:46,300 before anybody even knows we've been kidnapped? 133 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:48,160 Oh, my God. 134 00:12:50,820 --> 00:12:55,520 When we woke up the next morning, the door opens. 135 00:12:57,740 --> 00:13:00,700 The masked man came in carrying a gun. 136 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:06,440 How are you? 137 00:13:10,740 --> 00:13:12,280 Yeah, we're fine, thanks, okay. 138 00:13:13,740 --> 00:13:17,820 I thought, thank God, you know, because he actually made it possible for us to 139 00:13:17,820 --> 00:13:18,820 start talking. 140 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:25,540 I like theatre very much. 141 00:13:28,680 --> 00:13:30,600 Do you like the theatre? 142 00:13:32,060 --> 00:13:34,200 Yes, we both like the theatre. 143 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:36,420 He said, do you like the theatre? 144 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:40,720 And they said, oh, shit, you know, he's just sort of reading stuff out of the 145 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:44,560 book. It's not really from a deeper thought, it's just being spewed out of a 146 00:13:44,560 --> 00:13:47,380 book. The weather, no good. 147 00:13:50,420 --> 00:13:57,280 Rainy. He sat down beside me on the camp 148 00:13:57,280 --> 00:13:58,280 bed. 149 00:13:58,540 --> 00:14:02,200 Now, this was scary, this was very scary, and my heart was going. 150 00:14:06,749 --> 00:14:10,610 I like theatre very much. 151 00:14:11,410 --> 00:14:14,230 So this guy then put his hand on Camilla's knee. 152 00:14:14,450 --> 00:14:15,450 Is that good? 153 00:14:16,030 --> 00:14:17,870 I thought, oh, this is a bit dodgy. 154 00:14:21,850 --> 00:14:25,210 I thought, well, I've got to do something to intervene. 155 00:14:27,990 --> 00:14:29,410 Is that good? 156 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:39,600 It's a very high, tense state. 157 00:14:39,820 --> 00:14:43,880 It's like walking on this knife edge, and it's life one side and death the 158 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:46,620 side, and we're walking down this very fine line. 159 00:14:52,540 --> 00:14:54,380 So I'm wondering where this is going to go. 160 00:14:55,500 --> 00:14:59,120 Are all of these guys going to have a go at Camilla? 161 00:15:12,780 --> 00:15:15,800 The two have been named as John James and Camilla Carr. 162 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:20,220 On Thursday night, half a dozen armed gunmen burst in and abducted them. 163 00:15:20,780 --> 00:15:24,740 In the present lawless atmosphere in Chechnya, getting the two aid workers 164 00:15:24,740 --> 00:15:26,940 released could prove a difficult business. 165 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:35,800 No, 166 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:40,680 we didn't know that they might have been taking us over to kill us. 167 00:15:42,500 --> 00:15:45,440 I knew that the guys there had been fighting for two years. 168 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:48,100 I knew they had killed people. 169 00:15:56,660 --> 00:16:00,700 So the end of this journey got some steps pushed into another room. 170 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:33,840 And they took off our blindfolds. And that was extraordinary because we were 171 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:37,020 quite a large paint room with a kind of parquet, shiny floor. 172 00:16:37,660 --> 00:16:39,160 I certainly felt relief. 173 00:16:50,350 --> 00:16:54,930 The next morning they allowed us out and then we realised we were in a flat. 174 00:17:04,609 --> 00:17:11,450 And they're sort of like, please come in and sit down 175 00:17:11,450 --> 00:17:12,450 and have breakfast. 176 00:17:12,710 --> 00:17:15,290 And it's like so surreal. 177 00:17:15,770 --> 00:17:19,349 I just looked down at the table in amazement because they'd laid it for us. 178 00:17:20,460 --> 00:17:23,520 And they stood back, looking like waiters in their masks. 179 00:17:24,180 --> 00:17:29,480 She's got coffee, and I think there's bread, and there's some cooked eggs, 180 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:31,140 height of luxury. 181 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:37,280 And I just found it so funny, I burst out laughing. 182 00:17:49,450 --> 00:17:50,510 And he just said, spies. 183 00:17:50,850 --> 00:17:52,390 And he said, spies everywhere. 184 00:17:53,210 --> 00:17:54,850 They hear you speaking. 185 00:18:14,430 --> 00:18:17,430 So he realized it's okay. It's a million dollars. 186 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:20,840 And I thought I'd quickly do some maths in my head, I think. 187 00:18:21,260 --> 00:18:25,860 Well, we're going to be here some time if they want to get to that figure. 188 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:36,720 So after breakfast, this man came in. 189 00:18:52,010 --> 00:18:54,270 The guys had masks on all the time. 190 00:18:55,050 --> 00:18:56,970 Then, suddenly... 191 00:18:56,970 --> 00:19:03,950 For us, this 192 00:19:03,950 --> 00:19:08,170 felt more dangerous. We thought, oh, my God, because he had told us before, if 193 00:19:08,170 --> 00:19:09,490 we ever saw him, it would be death. 194 00:19:11,970 --> 00:19:13,530 And he was looking at John. 195 00:19:16,070 --> 00:19:20,010 And I was just shocked by this. 196 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:21,760 Gesture of trust. 197 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:23,960 Because that's how I perceived it. 198 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:26,100 That he was trusting me. 199 00:19:28,100 --> 00:19:29,500 You like children? 200 00:19:30,460 --> 00:19:31,660 We both like children. 201 00:19:34,020 --> 00:19:35,140 I have a son. 202 00:19:36,540 --> 00:19:37,840 How old is your son? 203 00:19:38,360 --> 00:19:39,860 Five years. 204 00:19:40,180 --> 00:19:41,180 What's his name? 205 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:42,800 Vasily. 206 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:44,620 Play football with him. 207 00:19:45,020 --> 00:19:46,940 What? Play football with him. Ah. 208 00:19:48,650 --> 00:19:54,130 And I'm sure if I'd met him in a non -war zone, we'd quite easily become 209 00:19:54,130 --> 00:19:54,989 good friends. 210 00:19:54,990 --> 00:20:00,750 But in this scenario, it was really quite bizarre relationship. 211 00:20:02,690 --> 00:20:03,690 My son. 212 00:20:05,830 --> 00:20:08,490 I don't see him much. 213 00:20:12,930 --> 00:20:15,690 You know, we felt really lucky because... 214 00:20:16,140 --> 00:20:18,400 This man, he was treating us as humans. 215 00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:22,700 We gave him a nickname. We called him Guardian Angel, GA. 216 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:26,300 I like Manchester United. 217 00:20:27,420 --> 00:20:32,920 I felt this kind of wave of love for him, really. 218 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:37,660 And I think it comes through understanding what he'd been through and 219 00:20:37,660 --> 00:20:38,660 about his history. 220 00:20:38,900 --> 00:20:40,420 Maybe it's just my nature. 221 00:20:43,050 --> 00:20:47,150 There came a day I was sitting in the kitchen with GA and we were just sitting 222 00:20:47,150 --> 00:20:48,310 down having a cup of tea. 223 00:21:03,310 --> 00:21:08,250 Suddenly GA held the bread knife to my back and tried to kiss me. 224 00:21:09,070 --> 00:21:10,070 No! 225 00:21:10,350 --> 00:21:11,350 No, no! 226 00:21:38,479 --> 00:21:41,480 He had this gun trained on me. 227 00:21:41,830 --> 00:21:42,970 while I was mopping the floor. 228 00:21:45,030 --> 00:21:46,730 And that was when I began shaking. 229 00:21:47,370 --> 00:21:51,770 I thought, this man is so much more traumatised than we had thought. 230 00:21:52,170 --> 00:21:57,050 And because we had opened our hearts to them and become friends, now we're going 231 00:21:57,050 --> 00:21:58,050 to have to step back. 232 00:21:58,810 --> 00:21:59,810 What's up? 233 00:22:27,340 --> 00:22:31,060 There came a time when they started getting very excited and saying, you're 234 00:22:31,060 --> 00:22:32,019 going to be freed. 235 00:22:32,020 --> 00:22:35,280 And we're thinking, well, it's only just over a month, you know. It might be a 236 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:36,280 miracle, you never know. 237 00:22:40,980 --> 00:22:47,860 I can remember really feeling this 238 00:22:47,860 --> 00:22:51,740 sense of hope when we were blindfolded and going along in the car. 239 00:22:56,170 --> 00:22:57,930 I think we were holding hands all the way. 240 00:23:00,010 --> 00:23:02,610 I thought, it's coming. It's going to happen soon. 241 00:23:02,890 --> 00:23:04,630 You know, we'd be freed there and then. 242 00:23:07,290 --> 00:23:08,290 Come on. 243 00:23:09,530 --> 00:23:11,590 We were guided down these steps. 244 00:23:12,030 --> 00:23:14,490 There was silence. This was all very, very silent. 245 00:23:18,070 --> 00:23:24,390 Quite quickly, I realised, oh my gosh, we're back at the black hole. 246 00:23:25,420 --> 00:23:26,420 Back at the cellar. 247 00:23:27,620 --> 00:23:28,740 Oh shit. 248 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:31,340 I thought we'd seen the last at this place. 249 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:52,540 I'm in the cellar and I can hear... 250 00:23:55,979 --> 00:23:57,280 Johnny, Johnny. 251 00:23:59,380 --> 00:24:00,380 Johnny. 252 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:06,920 He started this game of calling Johnny, Johnny, Johnny, like in The Shining, 253 00:24:07,060 --> 00:24:13,580 which was really horrible because then you get that kind of sick, slimy 254 00:24:14,860 --> 00:24:16,680 He's going to be playing games again. 255 00:24:29,900 --> 00:24:32,920 I didn't know what to do then. I was just kind of shocked and I just went 256 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:33,920 silent. 257 00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:43,460 What's 258 00:24:43,460 --> 00:24:52,480 happening? 259 00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:53,520 What are we doing out there? 260 00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:59,060 I could hear John being thumped in the chest. 261 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:01,200 I really was in terror then. 262 00:25:06,820 --> 00:25:07,200 And 263 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:15,920 I 264 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:18,520 kept on saying, this is the truth, and I'd tell them over and over. 265 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:24,060 They wanted to hear that I was a spy. 266 00:25:34,990 --> 00:25:35,990 I'm sort of seated. 267 00:25:37,570 --> 00:25:39,210 So a hand's behind my back. 268 00:25:42,490 --> 00:25:43,610 GA's got a knife. 269 00:25:45,150 --> 00:25:47,190 And he's just shaking it in front of my face. 270 00:25:49,690 --> 00:25:52,770 Yeah, he pushed the tip of the blade just in my throat here. 271 00:25:55,430 --> 00:26:01,770 And pushed it. He never broke the skin, but he just pushed so I could feel the 272 00:26:01,770 --> 00:26:02,770 blade. 273 00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:31,680 I felt strangely safe now in this cellar, and it was a relief to be away 274 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:36,380 the craziness that I experienced upstairs. 275 00:26:37,340 --> 00:26:43,680 I really felt this strong love for Camilla, and I felt, how could I 276 00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:44,680 express that? 277 00:26:53,710 --> 00:26:54,710 Leaping alive. 278 00:26:58,550 --> 00:26:59,830 Yes, of course. 279 00:27:01,350 --> 00:27:05,170 And it felt like we'd actually merged, we'd become one. 280 00:27:05,450 --> 00:27:12,410 And that, for me, gave me much more strength and resolve to get through 281 00:27:12,410 --> 00:27:13,410 this situation. 282 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:46,440 Where are you going? 283 00:28:08,430 --> 00:28:12,990 He came in and he was ranting on about something about we'd opened a packet of 284 00:28:12,990 --> 00:28:13,990 tea. 285 00:28:18,830 --> 00:28:21,850 And then he started saying something like, you know, gesturing, like, I'm 286 00:28:21,850 --> 00:28:22,850 to cut your ear off. 287 00:28:28,950 --> 00:28:29,390 And 288 00:28:29,390 --> 00:28:37,090 I 289 00:28:37,090 --> 00:28:37,879 have a... 290 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:42,980 Horrible feeling that something not nice is going to happen. 291 00:28:53,640 --> 00:29:00,560 I tried to call several times and I 292 00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:02,880 could just see those handcuffs were really strong. 293 00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:17,940 He took me by the arm and he pushed me down on this bed. 294 00:29:19,660 --> 00:29:20,660 No, 295 00:29:21,060 --> 00:29:22,060 no. 296 00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:23,960 John, John is my husband. 297 00:29:27,940 --> 00:29:28,460 It 298 00:29:28,460 --> 00:29:39,420 all 299 00:29:39,420 --> 00:29:40,420 falls silent. 300 00:29:41,660 --> 00:29:42,760 And then that silence. 301 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:50,160 hits me and a wave of nausea comes 302 00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:56,360 over me and a wave of heat and a realisation that Camilla's being raped. 303 00:29:58,860 --> 00:30:02,480 I was praying hard that it would be over quickly. 304 00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:21,400 i remember just sort of thinking of my mother and you know just telling him in 305 00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:25,300 my mind that this is what's happened i've been raped 306 00:31:13,710 --> 00:31:17,190 I just sat with her and just allowed her to cry. 307 00:31:20,650 --> 00:31:25,250 And about five minutes later... 308 00:31:25,250 --> 00:31:32,590 That 309 00:31:32,590 --> 00:31:39,310 was one 310 00:31:39,310 --> 00:31:42,450 of those powerless places of... 311 00:31:42,780 --> 00:31:47,120 ever felt myself to be in it's total 312 00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:52,100 disempowerment i 313 00:31:52,100 --> 00:31:57,960 thought 314 00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:03,580 what what's this what's this going on 315 00:32:16,270 --> 00:32:18,390 Do you like to play backgammon, Johnny? 316 00:32:21,310 --> 00:32:23,770 He's asking for me to go and play backgammon with him. 317 00:32:24,170 --> 00:32:25,170 Play. 318 00:32:26,490 --> 00:32:31,230 Ten minutes earlier, he was raping my partner, my wife. 319 00:32:32,670 --> 00:32:35,090 And now he's asking me to play backgammon with him. 320 00:32:37,450 --> 00:32:40,290 And I thought, you crazy guy, you don't know. 321 00:32:40,490 --> 00:32:42,150 You don't get it. 322 00:32:43,690 --> 00:32:45,850 I feel this hatred towards this guy. 323 00:32:53,650 --> 00:32:56,890 And I'm shaking gently into the surface. 324 00:32:59,170 --> 00:33:05,810 It's really difficult to hold the revenge energy, that raw response 325 00:33:05,810 --> 00:33:06,810 energy. 326 00:33:14,060 --> 00:33:15,240 You don't like to smoke? 327 00:33:16,780 --> 00:33:19,960 I know loads of thoughts rush through my mind. 328 00:33:21,500 --> 00:33:22,500 Relax, Johnny. 329 00:33:23,740 --> 00:33:28,460 I felt at this point in time I could actually overpower him, even though he 330 00:33:28,460 --> 00:33:29,219 a big guy. 331 00:33:29,220 --> 00:33:31,180 And I guess he's pretty stoned. 332 00:33:32,860 --> 00:33:37,020 I have this rage inside that just wants to reach out and hit him. 333 00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:40,780 He will be okay. 334 00:33:46,959 --> 00:33:47,959 Respect! 335 00:34:00,660 --> 00:34:06,700 But there's this other part of me that, hang on a minute, we've got to survive. 336 00:34:06,980 --> 00:34:07,859 We've got to survive. 337 00:34:07,860 --> 00:34:09,520 Both of us have got to survive this. 338 00:34:11,780 --> 00:34:15,280 Of course, we hoped that would be... 339 00:34:15,830 --> 00:34:16,830 Just the one time. 340 00:34:18,469 --> 00:34:19,469 But it wasn't. 341 00:34:23,710 --> 00:34:25,690 It was the darkest time for us. 342 00:34:36,170 --> 00:34:43,030 They came down to the cellar and they stood us up against 343 00:34:43,030 --> 00:34:47,130 the wall and they had this... They will sign and it said $2 million each. 344 00:34:47,929 --> 00:34:49,250 Hello. Hi. 345 00:34:51,290 --> 00:34:55,010 We're being well treated and well fed, but please help us. 346 00:34:57,230 --> 00:35:01,830 Please don't make it too much longer. I don't know how long I can stay sane. 347 00:35:02,230 --> 00:35:05,830 We've gone from $1 million to $4 million. 348 00:35:07,370 --> 00:35:13,450 How on earth are our family or anybody going to get to that level of ransom? 349 00:35:15,050 --> 00:35:19,230 It was a 10 -day deadline, but on that, like, $4 million being paid. 350 00:35:20,530 --> 00:35:23,070 Later that night, they got some music going. 351 00:35:30,970 --> 00:35:37,730 Well, they were in a really good mood because they thought that now a contact 352 00:35:37,730 --> 00:35:41,930 would be made and the money would come through and we'd be relieved. 353 00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:49,860 And it was basically thrilled. Who would come and picture us doing this now with 354 00:35:49,860 --> 00:35:53,960 our... Be happy, darling. 355 00:35:56,280 --> 00:36:00,720 The A decided he'd start doing a bit of kung fu and showing me some kung fu. 356 00:36:01,380 --> 00:36:05,620 Luckily, I managed to deflect or duck away from most of them. 357 00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:13,260 By this point, I just didn't know they would kill us at the moment. 358 00:36:14,240 --> 00:36:15,500 I just didn't know. 359 00:36:20,380 --> 00:36:24,740 Well, two days passed, three days passed, four, five. 360 00:36:26,980 --> 00:36:28,620 Deadline came and went. 361 00:36:30,380 --> 00:36:35,320 So by this stage, I decided that I wasn't going to allow my hopes to be 362 00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:37,320 just to be dashed again. 363 00:36:39,220 --> 00:36:42,020 I sort of abandoned that whole concept. 364 00:36:42,830 --> 00:36:46,510 just to safeguard my own sanity. 365 00:36:55,090 --> 00:37:00,950 The temperatures outside started going up and up and up and the temperature 366 00:37:00,950 --> 00:37:03,570 inside started going up and up and up. 367 00:37:12,330 --> 00:37:16,990 I thought I'd lose it a little bit with the temperature. I just couldn't get 368 00:37:16,990 --> 00:37:19,510 cool. I was just pouring wood sweat all night. 369 00:37:24,210 --> 00:37:24,750 It 370 00:37:24,750 --> 00:37:41,210 was 371 00:37:41,210 --> 00:37:42,210 the lowest. 372 00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:47,340 I'd ever experienced, which is really hard just to continue living. 373 00:37:53,340 --> 00:37:54,340 What is it? 374 00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:00,360 What do you want? 375 00:38:01,380 --> 00:38:02,380 You want food? 376 00:38:04,460 --> 00:38:06,560 Tell me what you want. A book? 377 00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:07,920 Food? Tell me. 378 00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:09,360 Come on, tell me. 379 00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:10,760 I'll bring it to you. 380 00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:14,520 You want a radio? 381 00:38:14,740 --> 00:38:18,680 And I said, yes, I'll have a radio. 382 00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:22,400 OK, radio, radio. Come down, I'll bring you a radio. 383 00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:29,160 OK? And not for a moment did I think that I think that that radio would 384 00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:30,160 manifest. 385 00:38:32,380 --> 00:38:36,040 After a bit of twiddling with the knobs, we eventually found the World Service. 386 00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:42,620 And that was like having a hole punched in the wall. It was this huge... 387 00:38:42,890 --> 00:38:44,250 window put there instead. 388 00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:14,740 I don't know how long I can stay sane. 389 00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:21,720 Meanwhile, relatives can only hope and wait. It was like, wow, that video is 390 00:39:21,720 --> 00:39:22,860 there, out in the world. 391 00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:28,700 It said that there were some officers from Scotland Yard in the neighbouring 392 00:39:28,700 --> 00:39:31,100 state investigating as best they could. 393 00:39:34,620 --> 00:39:38,040 So we knew that the rest of the world knew that we were still there. 394 00:39:38,900 --> 00:39:41,060 So we were pretty excited about this. 395 00:39:44,270 --> 00:39:48,530 And you try not to hope because, I mean, it's hell to hope. 396 00:40:07,610 --> 00:40:12,250 I mean, this was scary. 397 00:40:12,860 --> 00:40:13,860 My heart was beating. 398 00:40:18,540 --> 00:40:19,180 We 399 00:40:19,180 --> 00:40:26,020 get moved 400 00:40:26,020 --> 00:40:30,200 again at night, blindfolded, tied up. 401 00:40:43,500 --> 00:40:49,040 It felt like there was just a huge amount of people there, lots of armed 402 00:40:49,860 --> 00:40:53,000 We were led out into a car. 403 00:40:54,340 --> 00:41:01,240 I could feel this tension in my body and this fear. Oh, my God, 404 00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:02,840 you know, what's happening? 405 00:41:10,890 --> 00:41:12,830 This was the most terrifying thing. 406 00:41:13,830 --> 00:41:19,090 We didn't know if this was the day that we were freed or the day that we were 407 00:41:19,090 --> 00:41:20,090 killed. 408 00:41:29,790 --> 00:41:31,350 We drove down this road. 409 00:41:32,150 --> 00:41:33,870 I felt unknown. 410 00:41:34,110 --> 00:41:37,690 And then I felt my blindfold being untied. 411 00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:53,280 And then he pointed to Camilla and gestured that I took her blindfold off. 412 00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:07,040 I wasn't quite sure where we were going, you know. I thought, well, we're either 413 00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:09,000 going to freedom or we're going to execution. 414 00:42:10,580 --> 00:42:13,020 Because they don't give a shit if we see anything anymore. 415 00:42:18,250 --> 00:42:20,550 The man in the front seat turned around. 416 00:42:29,170 --> 00:42:32,630 You will be pleased to know we are now leaving Chechen territory. 417 00:42:33,230 --> 00:42:34,230 You are free. 418 00:42:42,930 --> 00:42:45,770 I just had this wave of... 419 00:42:46,090 --> 00:42:50,390 elation, excitement, euphoria, all at once, all just swirled around. 420 00:42:54,230 --> 00:42:56,310 This is it, we're on our way home. 421 00:42:57,350 --> 00:42:58,710 We're on our way home. 422 00:43:02,190 --> 00:43:07,150 There was a huge feeling of euphoria then, the feeling of being alive, 423 00:43:07,150 --> 00:43:08,150 feeling of being alive. 424 00:43:10,810 --> 00:43:11,830 That was magical. 425 00:43:56,840 --> 00:44:03,800 We made it all through that horrible time, that torment, and 426 00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:06,100 we made it and we got to this beautiful place. 427 00:44:08,900 --> 00:44:14,160 Camilla was walking down the aisle in a beautiful dress and it was just, 428 00:44:14,260 --> 00:44:19,080 oh, sublime is the only way I can describe it. 429 00:44:20,720 --> 00:44:24,880 It was a wonderful thing to bring everyone together and for them to see 430 00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:25,880 we're OK. 431 00:44:26,540 --> 00:44:27,540 We had survived. 432 00:44:40,100 --> 00:44:44,680 Kidnapped Abroad is back next Monday at 10pm and takes a look at an abduction 433 00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:46,220 which takes place in India. 434 00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:52,200 Next on 5, returning to the scene of the crime in the action sequel Sniper 2 435 00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:53,980 starring Tom Berringer.